Grahm: And then backing up a tiny bit. She comes home at 2 in the morning. She gets into bed. When you guys had sex together, was that pretty quickly after she came home?
Chris: I think it was around like 2:30. Because I felt like she had been in bed for a little while.
Grahm: Forgive me, it’s not a pervy thing, but she woke you up?
Chris: Yeah, I could feel like a hand was on me, like rubbing my leg or my chest or something like that.
Grahm: And then that was a signal, it’s go-time type thing?
Chris: Pretty much. She was like – yeah.
Grahm: And then that was maybe a half an hour after. And then after that, is there any talking? Or was it just kind of a – quiet in the middle of the night?
Chris: Yeah. I just felt, I just felt around me, I’m just like, “What?”
Grahm: Time to go.
Grahm: A couple of hours asleep, alarm goes off. I guess what I don’t understand is, so then there was some talking? And then, how did you get on top of her? How did that happen?
Chris: It was like when I got in the bed because she was laying, when she was sleeping, she was laying like face-down, which she really never does, and I just got in the bed and I kind of nudged her and then she kind of rolled over and then I was just like, just right there on top of her.
Grahm: And that was after you’d gotten ready?
Grahm: So, you go down, you make your food.
Chris: Oh yeah, I got like cottage thing and a couple of things I made that day.
Grahm: We talked a little earlier today about there were all of these things playing in your mind where you just didn’t even want to go another second without having this conversation, without some sort of completion, right?
Grahm: You come back, she’s asleep and then you just kind of nudge her?
Chris: Yeah, I just kind of like, “Hey, wake up for a second.”
Grahm: And was there a nudge/talk for twenty minutes, or was it just nudge and then all of the sudden you’re on top of her?
Chris: No, I was just pretty much on top of her.
Grahm: Okay, so that happened pretty quickly.
Chris: Yeah. That’s how we kind of pretty much talked. I was just right there.
Grahm: And was there talking?
Grahm: A nudge, a talk. She’s laying down and you’re standing up?
Chris: I got on my side of the bed and I just like, nudged her like that.
Grahm: And then, you’re talking while you’re on top of her?
Grahm: That seems confusing to me. Is that actually what happened? Okay. And so —
Tammy: She was fine just laying there, when you were trying to talk to her while you’re on top of her?
Chris: Yeah, I think maybe she thought we were going to have sex again or something.
Grahm: Okay. And how long did you talk?
Chris: Like about fifteen/twenty minutes.
Grahm: Really? In that position? Okay. And was there any sex?
Chris: No? Maybe she – basically from the position we were in, she maybe thought maybe I’d try to go again. I don’t know.
Grahm: And I don’t want to harp on it too much, but I’m just trying to think if my wife’s four months pregnant and it’s 5:00 in the morning and I want to talk and I want to get on top of her, that’s just not going to fly. So, that’s why I’m confused. Is that really what happened?
Grahm: And then, talked for about fifteen minutes and then it’s heated and then your hands are on her neck? Okay.
Tammy: What did the talk consist of?
Chris: Basically, at first, it was more of selling the house type of thing or not going to Aspen or trying to maybe go at a different time and then it just switched all to the, “I don’t feel like I’m in love with you anymore. We’re not compatible.” And that’s when it got to the heated part of it.
Dave: Did she ever say at some point, “Get off of me?”
Chris: At the end. That’s when she said, “I don’t want you to –” If felt like, you know, because where I was, it was kind of like she didn’t want me to sit down or hurt the baby or anything like that.
Tammy: Did she accuse you of cheating at that point?
Tammy: She what’d she say?
Chris: She’s like, “I knew there was somebody else. I knew there was somebody else.” I didn’t come out and just say, you know, yeah, there is somebody else, but she obviously already knew.
Tammy: Your response to that was what? Did you say, “No, there’s not?” Did you deny it?
Chris: I just denied it, but at that point – because when she would accuse me on the beach, there was a lot, like, “There’s nobody else. There’s nobody else.” Or, whenever we got back home, she always said, “There’s got to be somebody else,” because she’d always talk to her friends like Christina or somebody on text messaging and they’d always say he’s gotten somebody else if he’s not wanting to sleep with you, like he’s getting it from somewhere else and there’s nowhere else, I mean, she couldn’t really say that I was getting it anywhere else because I was using those Anadarko gift cards, so it was kind like, just me getting distant. She knew and that’s mainly the reason why I talked to her because I knew after that night, it was just like, it felt like, I just felt guilty, more guilty than ever before.
Grahm: So, we know what happened and we can talk about it today openly and that’s what we need from you to just kind of say, I know it sounds bad, or I know this or I feel this way, but physically, this is exactly what happened. So, if you could tell us that, it seems then it would have had to been a pretty quick transition from two people talking to this. Is that what happened?
Chris: Yeah. It was like, I don’t want to, like, try to think of the last things we were talking about. But it was like, “I don’t love you anymore,” and then she was like, “You’re never going to see the kids.”
Grahm: That’s perfect, Chris, that’s exactly what we need to hear. And I know it’s hard to walk through that again, but that’s exactly what we need. So then, as soon as she started talking like that, then it was on. Okay.
Tammy: Was it you saying that you didn’t love her? Is that right? Okay.
Grahm: And her saying, you’re never going to see the kids?
Grahm: I can imagine how that made you feel.
Chris: It didn’t warrant what I did.
Grahm: And then the fact that she didn’t scratch at you or anything, is that because it was so powerful?
Chris: I don’t think, I mean, it didn’t feel like – I’ve never done that before, put my hands around anybody before, so, I don’t even know what kind of force I was putting on her neck. Like they said, two to four minutes, I don’t know if that was four minutes.
Tammy: Did you cover her face at all during that time?
Grahm: Both hands on the neck. Okay. And so, if it’s done right, I mean, that could be a matter of seconds before someone on their carotid loses oxygen to their brain, it’s out. Did it seem like it was that quick? Okay. Maybe a minute? Maybe two? Okay. Screaming? Okay. All right. Did you see eyes go bloodshot or anything like that? Okay.
Tammy: You kept talking about the mascara. Did you see mascara on her face?
Chris: It looked like it was like – that’s what I attributed it too?
Tammy: Was she crying, is that why? At what point did she start crying?
Chris: When I was talking about the relationship, I’m talking about not being compatible. And then when she was talking about there’s somebody else, that’s where she started crying. That’s why I thought, you know, mascara, I didn’t know. Was it?
Tammy: I don’t know. Was there a pillow or something?
Dave: Was there ever at any time a pillow or a sheet or anything involved in that, on her face specifically? No.
Chris: Like the sheet I kind of wrapped around her to help get her downstairs, that’s about it.
Dave: The one that was at the site? Okay. And then the other sheets, they were in the trash. At what point did you put those in there? Obviously, after I was in the house.
Chris: Yeah. I think it was probably the next day or so. I don’t know. I’m not sure what happened. This is hard to talk about, like, when you strangle somebody. Sometimes, I guess they use the bathroom, so it was like, I think that’s one of the main reasons why because it’s something that had happened.
Dave: You said she was sleeping face-down at one point? Was her face in the pillow or was it turned to the side?
Chris: Kind of like on the side. She’s kind of like a side sleeper, but she was more down than usual.
Tammy: But then she rolled completely onto her back when you started talking to her?